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View Full Version : Is Sarah Baxter the most dominant XC runner in CA history?



VistamarXC
10-08-2012, 09:01 PM
I will admit that I still can't figure out how she seems to win so easily. It doesn't seem like she has great natural speed or a fierce kick, yet she is just so dominant! She just has the ability to pull away in the 2nd mile and never look back.

Bottom Line...she has still never lost an XC race! Jordan Hasay was 10th at Footlocker her sophomore year, Amber Trotter was unbelievable her senior year and Christine Bab**** was in a class of her own over the mile distance. Yet no one I have seen has simply WON so much.

Despite being the defending National Champion, repeating is gonna be a tall order, even for her... Hagen Reedy really pushed her at Woodbridge. I watched Amy Eloise Neal at Stanford, she is in incredible shape and has thrown down some nasty times this season. Of course there is still that 4:11 1500 girl Mary Cain!!

Rich Gonzalez
10-09-2012, 08:00 AM
Vistamar XC,

Really fun post. Thanks!

In this case, how would you define "dominant"? Dominant as in unbeatable, or dominant as in winning by large margin?

One thing to keep in mind in that although she was unbeaten as a freshmen (and I thought she was as good as Aisling Cuffe, if not maybe even better) , she did not run after state. Still, your post thread specifically states "in CA history" so that tag could still apply in the minds of some.

Last year, it's very hard to argue she was the best out there and capped it with a win against the strongest/deepest prep field in prep history.

This year brings new challenges. Am amazed at how strong she looks thus far. She's spurted up half a foot, but has fortunately grown into a physically stronger athlete along the way. That said, there are a few major gems out there across the country in 2012 (and you named a few of the best). She be fun for the fans!

We'll see what the future holds. (And you are very correct about Hagen Reedy -- she is something very special as well)

Amber Trotter might have been the most dominant when at her best when it comes to winning by amazing margins.

Pretty sure that Simi Valley coach Roger Evans' mission for the season is not to have her win by extra-large margins, but to keep her healthy, keep her progressing on her improvement curve, have it be a fun overall team process for her and her teammates, and prepare her for her post-high school running.

She's also a phenomenal young girl in terms of how she conducts herself. A fun, great kid.

Enjoy the season!

VistamarXC
10-09-2012, 11:48 AM
I mean dominant as in she never loses. Her margins of victory are pretty large also. Hagen Reedy came the closest only losing by 3 seconds although She was down by about 8-10 for most of the race and closed in a lot the last 200 meters.

Keith Chann
10-10-2012, 09:40 AM
Jordan Hassay was an incredible athlete to watch and for several years looked absolutely ridiculous on cross country courses. She also came along at just the right time, when the internet explosion was happening, to develop a cult-like following. She won many races before the gun went off because the rest of the competition saw her standing there and knew that she would not be beat.
I think that Sarah Baxter is almost exactly the same way, probably because her smaller blonde stature is very similar. She just destroyed courses and competition her first year and that set a tone of "unbeatableness."

Having seen Amber Trotter run the record at Mt. SAC and destroy everyone at Clovis, I think she would have to be the most "dominant" runner. I think she also has the record for the largest margin of victory at Footlocker/Kinney nationals. For that one year Amber Trotter was unbelievably good. She dominated all the girls and most of the boys too!

Albert Caruana
10-10-2012, 10:09 AM
Ambert Trotter in 2001 was unreal and many of her times won't be duplicated for a long time, if ever. Here is one example, the NCS course at Hayward HS. Check out her time and how far behind the 2nd place person is behind her time.
http://cifncs.org/sports/cross_country/files/boys-girls%20all-time%20at%20Hayward.pdf

NCS Fan
10-13-2012, 08:10 PM
Umm...ever heard of Jordan Hasay?

Steve Chavez
10-14-2012, 09:00 AM
Regarding Amber Trotter, I would be hesitant, actually I would just not, put her in the conversation as best ever because it sets a very dangerous precedent. Amber Trotter was ravaged by an eating disorder her senior year which, sadly, not only contributed greatly to her insane times, but also destroyed her running career. I saw her at Footlocker Western Regionals her senior year and have never been so afraid for a young person's health. Her spine and hip bones protruded in a grotesque manner. Having coached girls for 16 years I think it is irresponsible to laud anyone who achieved great performance success through something so dangerous. In the years following Amber's run we saw several other girls burst onto the scene with dominating performances who also turned out to have eating disorders. Eating disorders are significant psychological and physiological disorders, and in the world of running all too common because of the significant performance boost that can be gained through weight loss. As such, performances by those engaging in such behavior should be underplayed or given the "proverbial asterisk" we like to give records tied to performance-enhancing drugs. For the sake of the kids we coach (boys and girls) we should be cautious when referring to the exploits of such athletes and use the opportunity to educate our athletes on the dangers of eating disorders.

MotelRowe
10-16-2012, 08:42 AM
I'd place my vote for Julia Stamps. She still holds the fastest time at the State Championships (16:43 in '96). If Baxter takes that down, then all hail to Queen Sarah.

Dozer
10-16-2012, 03:14 PM
I'd place my vote for Julia Stamps. She still holds the fastest time at the State Championships (16:43 in '96). If Baxter takes that down, then all hail to Queen Sarah.

I agree and she was also on the seen as an 8th grader if i'm not mistaken.

SteveU
10-16-2012, 07:08 PM
My take is that while I appreciate the intent behind what you are saying, and certainly agree with a lot of what you are saying, I feel like that perspective, the way you put it, goes a little too far. This is why: I think a large percentage of girls struggle with these issues and the extent to which they do are points on a continuum ... some struggle a little or for a short period of time and others, on the other end of the spectrum, have extreme issues that define or even ruin a career. If you judge Amber that way, then you almost have to find some subjective point where you decide you are going to let someone off the hook or put them on the hook. I certainly agree with you that you have to educate and make people aware of examples of athletes that would cause great concern if they were allowed to be role models. But beyond the extreme there is a lot of gray area along the spectrum.

Hmm... maybe i can put that a different, better way. There are some girls' records and all-time performances that seem "clearly" to have been achieved in an unhealthy manner and others that seem completely healthy. But so much more is in that gray area that I hesitate to put exact judgments on either end of the spectrum as well.

I don't know, I don't like the "asterisk" thought and comparison to PEDs. That sort of implies ill intent.


Regarding Amber Trotter, I would be hesitant, actually I would just not, put her in the conversation as best ever because it sets a very dangerous precedent.

Steve Chavez
10-17-2012, 05:20 PM
I'd place my vote for Julia Stamps. She still holds the fastest time at the State Championships (16:43 in '96). If Baxter takes that down, then all hail to Queen Sarah.
Julia Stamps was a thing of beauty to watch. She is one of the smartest racers I have ever seen. Perhaps her greatest accomplishment came her senior year when, after winning 3 individual state titles in a row, all she wanted was for her team to win state. She focused on motivating and bettering her team that season with the help of her coach, who did a great job. That year she was individual champ for the 4th year in a row and her team won the state title. One of the best interviews I have read was of her after the state meet. I have used her as motivation over the years for any elite level athlete I have coached who wants to merely focus on their own season their senior year. Julia was a class act and a great role model.

Remylive
10-17-2012, 05:28 PM
Steve not to take away from the topic, as I too think Stamps was more dominant in HS her first 2.5 years than anyone that's been mentioned so far, but I think she didn't win state her freshman XC season. Rincon Valley JHS? I thought she got appendicitis and didn't finish the season her freshman year. I could be wrong, but I think Sara Bei was the first 4-time state champ from California for XC.

Albert Caruana
10-17-2012, 09:11 PM
Steve not to take away from the topic, as I too think Stamps was more dominant in HS her first 2.5 years than anyone that's been mentioned so far, but I think she didn't win state her freshman XC season. Rincon Valley JHS? I thought she got appendicitis and didn't finish the season her freshman year. I could be wrong, but I think Sara Bei was the first 4-time state champ from California for XC.

Correct on Stamps' freshman season. She ruptured her appendix. Bei and Hasay are the only 4 time CA state xc champions.

Albert Caruana
10-20-2012, 10:06 AM
To answer original question. 16:00! 5:06, 5:39, 5:15 reported splits.

SteveU
10-20-2012, 10:18 AM
No doubt, man, that's mind-boggling. Course is running pretty darn fast, though. I wouldn't have thought we'd see 3-4 boys under 14:40 within this year's crop.


To answer original question. 16:00! 5:06, 5:39, 5:15 reported splits.

Coach Razor
10-20-2012, 10:25 AM
Yeah... Debate over.

ScottJoerger
10-20-2012, 01:04 PM
1440 is crazy fast but the record is 14:24 for guys. Imagine a boy going 14:08...

rcv_blackhawks_xc
10-20-2012, 02:29 PM
I saw Julia Stamps run @ Mt SAC, I thought she was amazing
I saw Anita Siraki run @ Mt SAC, I thought she was stellar
I was floored when i witnessed Amber Trotter run the 16:18
I saw Jordon Hasay throw everything she could and run unbelievalbe at Mt SAC for 4 years
all those where cool races to witness, but today was beyond special. 16:00. Enough said.
Now lets see if Sarah Baxer can take out the State record

VistamarXC
10-20-2012, 04:47 PM
Well this question has been cleared up. That was just ridiculous.

Dozer
10-20-2012, 07:44 PM
She ran so hard the computers don't even want to spit out the data....

Greg Beal
10-21-2012, 11:24 AM
I wonder if MileSplit will move Sarah Baxter up from 5th (!?) in their national rankings.

Last week MileSplit finally moved her ahead of Jillian Fanning of FM who hasn't run a race this season and who finished behind her at NXN in 2011.

FloTrack has posted the most complete video version of the race - http://www.flotrack.org/

Track Dude
10-28-2012, 11:08 AM
Julia Stamps was a thing of beauty to watch. She is one of the smartest racers I have ever seen. Perhaps her greatest accomplishment came her senior year when, after winning 3 individual state titles in a row, all she wanted was for her team to win state. She focused on motivating and bettering her team that season with the help of her coach, who did a great job. That year she was individual champ for the 4th year in a row and her team won the state title. One of the best interviews I have read was of her after the state meet. I have used her as motivation over the years for any elite level athlete I have coached who wants to merely focus on their own season their senior year. Julia was a cl*** act and a great role model.



+1
Excellent post!

I might be a little bit "biased" because Julia and her family are very dear friends of mine, but I think that Steve Chavez really hit the nail on the head.

Julia wasn't just some young "phenom" that dominated every competition that she entered. She was "mature beyond her years" and knew how to be a leader. She was bright, bubbly, spoke well, and always had something positive to say. She was a great motivator and at a young age understood the dynamics necessary to get her TEAM to achieve a State Title. She wasn't just a selfish elite "phenom". She saw the Big Picture. Not sure why coaches here believe that she "only" dominated during her first 2.5 years. Her 16:43 her Senior year in 1996 is still the course record at State.
So are her 16:45's run during her soph and junior years.

If that isn't DOMINATING, I don't know what is!

I'm happy to say that Julia is as Cl***y as ever . . . and is still running through Annadel State Park just like she used to in her younger days, and trains for a Marathon here and there (she competed at the US Olympic Marathon Trials in 2008 and 2012). But now she's kept incredibly busy chasing after her two little one's . . . .Siena Rae and Ashlin Rose.

http://www.northbay.com/running/Stamps09.jpg

Remylive
10-28-2012, 01:34 PM
Not sure why coaches here believe that she "only" dominated during her first 2.5 years. Her 16:43 her Senior year in 1996 is still the course record at State.
So are her 16:45's run during her soph and junior years.

If that isn't DOMINATING, I don't know what is!



I can only ***ume that you're talking to me, as no other coach mentioned 2.5 years. Really, you're preaching to the choir here as I was a huge Stamps fan (I was present for everyone one of her sub-17:00 Woodward Park clockings). If you're offended that I don't think she was the most dominating California female athlete ever for 4-straight years, I apologize. But I'm basing my opinion off of facts.
While she did set the still standing state record at Woodward, the rise of Kim Mortensen and Kristen Gordon make it hard for me to say she was the most dominating ever her last 1.5-2 years.

Glad to see she's doing so well.

Track Dude
10-28-2012, 05:53 PM
If you're offended that I don't think she was the most dominating California female athlete ever for 4-straight years, I apologize. But I'm basing my opinion off of facts.
While she did set the still standing state record at Woodward, the rise of Kim Mortensen and Kristen Gordon make it hard for me to say she was the most dominating ever her last 1.5-2 years. Glad to see she's doing so well.



Not offended at all Coach!
Like I said at the beginning, I'm a little bit biased. :D

My memory may be a bit "foggy" given my years, but I certainly remember Mortensen defeating Stamps at State on the track in the 3200m in 9:52.80 But I also seem to recall that Stamps had defeated Mortensen during the Fall Cross Country season rather handily on 4 occasions... only losing to Mortensen at the 1995 Footlocker Nationals when Julia failed to finish due to the flu.