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break4minmile
05-22-2013, 11:59 AM
If a runner decided to skip their high school cross country season, but still wanted to compete in the 2013 seeded Footlocker West Regionals, would open 5K times (USATF youth races , road races, open college races) run in the fall of 2013 be accepted in terms of determining starting line position?

Hal Harkness
05-22-2013, 08:48 PM
A runner who skips his/her high school cross country season has everything to lose and nothing to win. Poor decision.

ThreeTrees
05-23-2013, 06:42 AM
A runner who skips his/her high school cross country season has everything to lose and nothing to win. Poor decision.

I think Cain and Verzbicas chose wisely.

rnrdad
05-23-2013, 07:14 AM
Does any one have an answer to his question? I do not, but I am sure someone would know.

Maybe it would be polite to answer an honest question before posting viewpoints.

Hal Harkness
05-23-2013, 07:30 AM
There aren't too many in the Cain and Verzbicas category. Doug Todd at Mt. Sac, who is the Western Regional Meet Manager, would have the correct answer.

ThreeTrees
05-23-2013, 07:57 AM
There aren't too many in the Cain and Verzbicas category. Doug Todd at Mt. Sac, who is the Western Regional Meet Manager, would have the correct answer.

Guess it depends upon how you define category. It it's 4:04 (1500) or 3:59 (mile), probably only 2. If it's dissatisfaction with a public school coach and a desire for something better, countless more. :)

Martin Pennell
05-23-2013, 08:18 AM
I think Cain and Verzbicas chose wisely.

Cain for sure, her career is far beyond that of any high schooler, and the way it is looking beyond that of the collegiate ranks. She is ready to make more money than most college grads. Verzbicas on the other hand, not so much. He didn't leave high school due to dissatisfaction, he was 19 and ready to move on. He was also coached by his parents, his mom was a former Lithuanian 3000m record holder. Unfortunately for him he was not "beyond" the college ranks and left running to focus on his triathlete career.

rnrdad
05-23-2013, 08:19 AM
Lines that come to mind:

one tin soldier rides away
I wouldn't belong to a club that would have me as a member
when I want your opinion I will give it to you
My way or the highway
If it were a good idea I would have already proposed it
Mrs. Einstein: Don't be stupid Albert. If there were a way to reverse the aging process someone would have already found it and it would be on sale at Macy's. Now comb your hair and get a real job.

Any others?

break4minmile
05-23-2013, 08:27 AM
Whether you agree or disagree with the decision, I thank you for helping to push to find an answer. After two years (frosh/soph) of running with less than stellar results, I'm going to try a different approach before the ship sails. The same approach that worked in years prior to HS, which includes a specific plan tailored for the strengths (tempo runs) and weaknesses (core/sprints) of the individual. A plan that involves a gradual build up of mileage and pace for 6 months with no tapering for races except for one, Footlocker West Regional. It may be be the worst decision ever or the best, but life is about chasing passions and living with the results. I'm just hoping to start from the appropriate spot in the race in order to improve the chances of placing in the top 10.

rnrdad
05-23-2013, 08:49 AM
Whether you agree or disagree with the decision, I thank you for helping to push to find an answer. After two years (frosh/soph) of running with less than stellar results, I'm going to try a different approach before the ship sails. The same approach that worked in years prior to HS, which includes a specific plan tailored for the strengths (tempo runs) and weaknesses (core/sprints) of the individual. A plan that involves a gradual build up of mileage and pace for 6 months with no tapering for races except for one, Footlocker West Regional. It may be be the worst decision ever or the best, but life is about chasing passions and living with the results. I'm just hoping to start from the appropriate spot in the race in order to improve the chances of placing in the top 10.

Which is your absolute right to do.

During the Vietnam war there was an anti war song that had the line "one tin soldier rides away". Part of the country followed the "America love it or leave it" philosophy and other parts disagreed and said you could love America and still have your own opinion.

There are valid arguments on both sides of individual versus team.

However, opinions and statistics and scientifc studies aside, the individual still has an absolute right, I think, to think and act as an individual. (Of course this does not condone criminal and psychopathic actions)

Doug Soles
05-23-2013, 08:59 AM
Whether you agree or disagree with the decision, I thank you for helping to push to find an answer. After two years (frosh/soph) of running with less than stellar results, I'm going to try a different approach before the ship sails. The same approach that worked in years prior to HS, which includes a specific plan tailored for the strengths (tempo runs) and weaknesses (core/sprints) of the individual. A plan that involves a gradual build up of mileage and pace for 6 months with no tapering for races except for one, Footlocker West Regional. It may be be the worst decision ever or the best, but life is about chasing passions and living with the results. I'm just hoping to start from the appropriate spot in the race in order to improve the chances of placing in the top 10.

I personally wish you the best of luck! :)

I wish more families would take this route. If you are unhappy with your program, build your own personal 5k schedule and run the open postseason stuff. A little more dangerous since a lot of the recruiting happens in running through high school, so make sure to email any good results directly to the coaches of the colleges you are interested in. Truthfully you will need to run the postseason stuff well, so it is a bit more of a risk, but sounds like you aren't missing much. We had our #1 boy go this route a few years back. His biggest issue was that he lost his friend group from XC as they moved on to new team members and felt abandoned by him so he literally went from hundreds of friends and being the stud on the team to not really having anyone to hang out with. He found training by himself very lonely and not helping him improve so he came back for track and excelled with a different mindset. If you don't think this will be an issue for you, give it a go.

Parents out there, if you are unhappy with your team or coach don't attack through the athletic director, pull your kid and go the unattached route. A win-win for everyone involved.

Coach Soles

break4minmile
05-23-2013, 09:40 AM
Since most colleges emphasize track times I do plan on running with the HS during that season. I'll only be sitting out cross country in order to get back to good training habits, develop a stronger core, focus more on sprint work and most importantly prove to myself that I still have running talent. Sometimes when you are on a team where running is looked at as a social activity and not a serious sport, then you can lose your way. We had an athlete at our school this year go from no one to now being offered college scholarships worth 120K over 4-5 years simply because he moved himself away from the culture and got serious. Coaches and kids that want to hang out with you stress the social aspect, but that shouldn't be the only factor in making a better decision for yourself in the long term. The West Regional race is more of an added bonus to see how close I can get to qualify for nationals.

rnrdad
05-23-2013, 10:14 AM
I personally wish you the best of luck! :)

I wish more families would take this route. If you are unhappy with your program, build your own personal 5k schedule and run the open postseason stuff. A little more dangerous since a lot of the recruiting happens in running through high school, so make sure to email any good results directly to the coaches of the colleges you are interested in. Truthfully you will need to run the postseason stuff well, so it is a bit more of a risk, but sounds like you aren't missing much. We had our #1 boy go this route a few years back. His biggest issue was that he lost his friend group from XC as they moved on to new team members and felt abandoned by him so he literally went from hundreds of friends and being the stud on the team to not really having anyone to hang out with. He found training by himself very lonely and not helping him improve so he came back for track and excelled with a different mindset. If you don't think this will be an issue for you, give it a go.

Parents out there, if you are unhappy with your team or coach don't attack through the athletic director, pull your kid and go the unattached route. A win-win for everyone involved.

Coach Soles


Awesome, insightful, positive response, Coach Soles.

I applaud you.

ThreeTrees
05-23-2013, 10:20 AM
Since most colleges emphasize track times I do plan on running with the HS during that season. I'll only be sitting out cross country in order to get back to good training habits, develop a stronger core, focus more on sprint work and most importantly prove to myself that I still have running talent. Sometimes when you are on a team where running is looked at as a social activity and not a serious sport, then you can lose your way. We had an athlete at our school this year go from no one to now being offered college scholarships worth 120K over 4-5 years simply because he moved himself away from the culture and got serious. Coaches and kids that want to hang out with you stress the social aspect, but that shouldn't be the only factor in making a better decision for yourself in the long term. The West Regional race is more of an added bonus to see how close I can get to qualify for nationals.

Also wish you the very best. And while it's rather easy to find alternatives to high school track (with times generally far faster), cross country offers only a few (not very good) choices. If you in Southern California, here's a few you may wish to consider:

End of August - Nike Sunrise in the Park (5K)
Mid September - SCA XC GP - UC Irvine Invitational (8K)
Late September - SCA XC GP - Bell-Jeff Invitational (5K)
Mid October - Cal Poly SLO Invite (8K)
Mid November - SCA Youth JO Cross Country Championship – So Cal Association Meet - Young Men’s division (5K)
Late November - USATF Youth JO Cross Country Championship – Region 15 Meet - Young Men’s division (5K)
Early December - Footlocker West Regional (5K)
Mid December - Footlocker Finals ** (5K)
(** Alternative to Footlocker Finals on same date – USATF National Meet) (5K)

I think the SCA series may have grown the last year or two, but not sure. Good luck next year!

RichEde
05-23-2013, 01:43 PM
A response from Doug Todd

Yes, that would give us some type of mark to hang our hat on and , most likely these athletes have some kind of history from previous track and or cross country seasons.......
the races would serve as a way for them to 'show us that they are fit and healthy'
Doug Todd
Mt. SAC

break4minmile
05-23-2013, 03:51 PM
A response from Doug Todd

Yes, that would give us some type of mark to hang our hat on and , most likely these athletes have some kind of history from previous track and or cross country seasons.......
the races would serve as a way for them to 'show us that they are fit and healthy'
Doug Todd
Mt. SAC

Thank you very much Mr. Todd and everyone else who gave input on this thread. We can now put this topic to bed. See you all at West Regional.