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lbxcart
10-23-2013, 07:46 AM
Coaches (parents & athletes too),

so yesterday I received this e-mail from CIF-SS:

CIF-SS Cross Country Coaches:

There is a chance that Mt.SAC will be under construction during the 2014 or 2015 Cross Country Prelims and Finals. If this happens, we would not be able to use their Cross Country course. Nothing is definite as yet, but we are making preliminary inquiries to you as to possible venues in which to hold our two events, if and when the construction does occur there.

We are ideally looking for a place that can be secured for admission, has adequate parking space and is the kind of course we would expect for a championship event. If you have a suggestion please forward those on to me at the CIF-SS Office.

Bob McGuire will be at the Mt.SAC meet this weekend, if you would like to share your ideas with him as well.

We want to get ahead of this so that we have a direction to move in for our events, once the construction schedule is finalized.

So, Southern Section coaches lets start the discussion. Suggestions of possible sites if Mt. SAC cannot be used for 1-2 years?

Do we as coaches want to have a course that is similar to Mt. SAC or are people open to having a flatter course, a 5K route... after I received the e-mail I started thinking of venues (both LA and IE counties).

love to hear some ideas/opinions/thoughts

rburrows
10-23-2013, 08:28 AM
Whoa! This is interesting news.

Some ideas off of the top of my head -

College of the Canyons - has a challenging course like SAC and the site is used to hosting a good amount of runners/spectators, as seen in the turnouts for their summer all-comers races.

Prado Park - The Chino Hills-area venue has hosted major collegiate meets in the past (SCIAC, DIII Regionals, DII Championships). It would be a good site for a flatter 5K. But, there would be a major log jam the entrance and with parking.

Irvine Regional Park - OC Championships were just held there, but I have no idea if this venue could hold the number of runners/spectators as SAC does.

Keith Chann
10-23-2013, 10:29 AM
Part of the problem will be getting coaches to agree on what we want for a course. Many feel that the Mt. SAC course itself is a bit tough on the runners 2 weeks in a row. I would hate for us to move to a "road race" on a lightening fast course that are so popular at the beginning of the season. In my opinion, track season is for speed. Cross country is for a challenging, but reasonable, course. The fast courses certainly have their place during the season but I would rather not see them decide championships (like the Mt. SAC rain course!).

I do think Prado Park is a reasonable choice but the grass needs to be cut to a reasonable length and there are no real hills but it could be workable. The entrance, as pointed out above, would be a nightmare though.

lbxcart
10-23-2013, 02:10 PM
yeah I know there are now two treads on this issue, but I figured i'd give my two cents on the one I started.

places I've coach/ran/spectated at that I think may make decent alternatives to Mt. SAC

Cuesta College (SLO/Morrow Bay)
Pros: course similar to Mt SAC
Cons: on the northwestern fridge of the SS, parking may be an issue

El Dorado Park (Long Beach)
Pros: Central to LA & OC
Cons: Not Central to IE or Ventura/SLO/Santa Barbra Counties, Flat as a pan cake

Glen Helen Regional
Pros: Plenty of parking, decent course (used for IE Champs) , 'rolling' hills and flat, could easily make 5k layout, great for IE school & those coming down from North eastern parts of SS
Cons: Location wouldn't sit well with OC, LA and probably SLO, Ventura & Santa Barbra. Doesn't have any major hills

Irvine Park:
Pros- Great location for OC, well known course (well for OC at least)
Cons- Parking , location good for OC, But not so much anyone else in the section, plus did I mention the parking?


other places I've heard about but never been to... Prado park, College of the Canyons... and what is the name of the park in san dimas that's pretty big?

more suggestion coaches/parents/spectators?

Hal Harkness
10-24-2013, 02:32 PM
Forget Irvine Park, not on the short or long list.

Tim Wood
10-25-2013, 02:17 PM
Are you thinking of Bonelli Park in San Dimas?

One other unusual idea - UC Riverside's course. Closed access, parking on campus. But utterly flat course. Agree with others that hills make it a championship course.

RichEde
10-25-2013, 02:40 PM
Does anyone have any input on Diamond Valley Lake?

cush
10-25-2013, 08:41 PM
has pierce college made a long or short list? i'm pretty sure it has closed access.

i'd disagree with the uc riverside course being completely flat--you probably could come up with a course out there that may be close to being comparable to woodward park, though not mt. sac.

finally, i suppose it will be difficult to find any course that can meet mt. sac's environment, at least from c.i.f.'s perspective:
closed access;
#of teams that can be put on the line;
rain course contingency

my guess is something's gotta give (and i doubt it will be closed access)...

Hal Harkness
10-25-2013, 10:54 PM
Pierce College is also not on short or long list.

CoachMedellin
10-27-2013, 07:09 PM
Wow, a Great (big) Park would be nice. LOL

How about....
Let's all just go to Woodward park for a few weekends??
or UCI or what about a golf course in Corona, Norco area?

Hal, there is a area near Irvine Park that is used for special events. Call me for info.

kquinn
10-28-2013, 07:28 AM
Glen Helen Park, site of the Inland Empire Challenge. Plenty of parking. Deceptively long hill leading to the finish area. Great viewing areas. On the eastern edge of the SS, but still not as far as we in the HD have to travel every year to go to Moorpark for D2 track prelims. Easy to get to at the convergence of the 15 and 215 freeways.

CoachMedellin
10-29-2013, 06:11 PM
How about Los Alamitos racetrack like Nike Nationals?

Hal Harkness
10-29-2013, 07:54 PM
Rich,

Yeah, right!

RichEde
10-30-2013, 07:56 AM
How about Los Alamitos racetrack like Nike Nationals?

I hear Hollywood Park could be available?

Brad Peters
10-30-2013, 11:24 AM
Coach Medellin - I'd be in favor of your proposal. As long as the park is full of mud. Blending the "mud run" phenomenon and "championships" is all the rage these days ;)

JStepp
10-30-2013, 08:00 PM
Coach Medellin - I'd be in favor of your proposal. As long as the park is full of mud. Blending the "mud run" phenomenon and "championships" is all the rage these days ;)

Don't forget about throwing some color in there as well.:rolleyes:

Tony DiMarco
10-30-2013, 08:28 PM
Brad, you wouldn't be saying that if you had run around in that mud.... The word fun didn't rhyme with horse poop for me ;)

In all seriousness, what CIF needs is a golf course? Something like Stanford would be perfect? Any golf courses that fit that build and are ok with 1000's of runners, parents and fans invading two Saturday mornings in a row... CIF should buy a golf course and use it for our championships every year!!!! Hal, do we have enough in the budget to pull that off?

It's funny how a few years ago we were pushing for a different venue and now we are trying to find one and hoping not to have to use it :p

George Ramos
10-31-2013, 05:41 AM
Tony, the Pac 10 has used the Rose Bowl golf course at least once for their championship meet.

Torres BHDP
10-31-2013, 08:51 AM
The Pac-10 has also used Skylinks golf course in Long Beach for their championships (in 2009 I believe). Coach Armand Crespo @ Pasadena CC was able to secure Brookside (Rose Bowl) golf course this year for a high school meet. I would say that using a golf course would have to be a realistic possibility.

Rich Gonzalez
10-31-2013, 08:26 PM
Justin,

It should be noted that the Pac-10 was able to use Skylinks Golf Course a few years ago only because Ron Allice (the meet director that year) called in a major favor and was given a RIDICULOUSLY low rental fee to use the course. Ron is a legend in Long Beach (and elsewhere) and when he asked for the favor, it was respectfully granted. I was told the regular rental fee would have prevented the Pac-10 from having the meet there.

By the way ... hope I didn't startle you two days ago when I yelled "Go Salesian" when coming upon you and your runners two evenings ago!

Go Mustangs!

Torres BHDP
11-01-2013, 07:36 AM
Ha! Startled that someone would yelled something positive... Not used to that! :p

Thanks for the support!

CoachMedellin
11-04-2013, 06:55 PM
To throw some good/bad ideas out there for discussion.

Run Divisions 1 and 4, 5 on a Thursday afternoon then Divisions 2, 3 on Friday afternoon at Irvine Park.

The following week run the finals on Friday afternoon.

Running on Thursday and Friday would allow Irvine Park to be accessible to the general public on Saturdays. I am assuming Saturday is their highest day of attendance for the general public. The reason for break-up the divisions is because the park can not handle the big crowds and parking can be a problem. Shuttle service from a remote parking lot could help.

Just my two cents

seekingadvice
11-06-2013, 08:58 AM
Central Park in Valencia?

CoachMedellin
11-22-2013, 12:43 PM
What about Angel Stadium?

Has parking, can charge admission, bathrooms and food. We can design a course to start and finish inside the stadium and run on the outside during the middle of the race. I can see putting the race on the scoreboard like they do at Mt Sac!!

And if we really want to make it exciting let's run the moto-cross course! Just kidding but the rest I think may be an idea.

Just my thoughts running wild!

yesstiles
12-02-2013, 05:29 PM
My source says no closure for Mt. Sac XC, only for Mt. Sac Relays in 2015/2016. Good news!

Chad Scott
12-02-2013, 07:57 PM
That would be awesome! If they could preserve the course so that it us useable in Ocotber and November for SAC Invite, CIF-SS, and FootLocker, that would be awesome. I'll keep my fingers crossed!

Hal Harkness
12-02-2013, 08:01 PM
That's wishful thinking!

RichEde
12-04-2013, 02:35 PM
My source says no closure for Mt. Sac XC, only for Mt. Sac Relays in 2015/2016. Good news!

That's certainly Plan A, but those of us OCD types really need a Plan B, just in case, so keep those suggestions coming.