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Thread: CIF rankings

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Pennell View Post
    Yeah I hadn't done any research into the Burbank squad so I was thinking something like that could be the case. As far as our girls go, we were at full strength. I wonder if Rich just switched the Fountain for Crescenta as they are both "Valley" schools.
    ===============================================
    I am a new to the California circuit, so I appreciate all the replies and education.
    In NY we have a formal ranking system, that is visible to all, Milesplit.
    in my new role in CA High Schook, I was going by the Milesplit ranking and in that ranking my school is in the top 10.
    In PCT my school does not show up in the list.
    I have my top two runners injured, and based on the criteria of how these rankings are put together, nobody has contacted me about my exceptions, or have accounted for them, yet they will show at league finals, run and move up on Milesplit rankings.

    I would like to hear from the schools/teams that are not in the PCT rankings, yet show up in milesplit or athletic rankings.
    How can they be in the most formal and oficial ranking in the country
    Those are the schools that feel the sting of how PCT creates the rankings which CIF uses to determine their ability to move forward
    It sounds as if the PCT rankings are created/calculated based on what a team "might" potentially do, based on personal knowledge of a few runners injured or missing... and not on what they are currently doing (running).
    I am seeing schools in the top 10 that based on results from this season have not performed to the same standard as prior years... yet they are in PCT rankings, not in milesplit, not in athletic net... are the rankings wishful thinking? or based on prior year performance? I am also seeing teams that are not ranked in PCT top 10 that should be there.
    why doesn't PCT list the runners used in the calculation with their actual/projected time and scoring criteria so every coach can see what the ***umptions are, so one can see and or challenge the method. milesplit and athletic do this.
    while I appreciate all the work that is being done in this site, and all the years of experience, and the year may end up 'right on' or 'very close' but it lacks clarity as to what ***umptions were used, that are different from milesplit or athletic net.
    good job though, is this group is comfortable with the rankings.
    thanks for your time.

  2. #12
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    In California, I am not sure anyone looks at milesplit or athletic.net rankings. I had no idea that they even existed. As far as I can see now milesplit only ranks the national top 25. Do they also have California specific rankings and/or divisional rankings?
    Athletic.net only has meets for which data has been provided to them. They are very limited in California data. ANy service that has Palos Verdes at #8 and St. John Bosco at #5 is incredibly inaccurate. MAdera South is a Division 1 school but ranked #1 in California D3 by athletic.net.
    Trust us, go with the CIF rankings done by Rich to get a more accurate picture of the teams.
    Keith Chann
    Chemistry teacher
    XC Fan
    Rubidoux High School

  3. #13
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    As much fun as it is to discuss rankings and the likes, they are and will always be just someone's opinion. That person, or group of people, can be well-informed and have a strong grasp of how it will all shake out, but in the end it is still an opinion.

    Every year, Rich does an amazing job. At times, sure we can gripe, especially when it comes to CIF-SS Prelims seeding, but overall we are merely nitpicking. The only way that rankings can affect anything would be if you're team is a super tough league and trying to qualify for CIF-SS Prelims, where you need to be ranked twice within the top 13 out of the last 4 polls. Otherwise, who cares where you are ranked? Again, it only has a small affect on seeding for Prelims, but most years there is something like 80-90% of ranked teams that qualify for Finals. And most of the time, the ranked teams that don't make it are the lower seeded teams where it always comes down to the simple fact, did your team compete they way they needed to on that one day and did any other team outperform/under-perform?

  4. #14
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    Having followed this group for a few years, if there was any discomfort with the rankings it would be expressed.
    Particularily now that more coaches are back participating in the site.

  5. #15
    Geez, I forget which ranking they were, but a few years back one of them had North Hills (PA) ranked extremely high in the country. Heck, I think it was around 13th. Regionally I believe they were third. They had a three guys under sub 9:20 back, which of course is excellent. Bummer for the rankers as they were then informed that the 4th and 5th fastest runners on the team were twin girls and 19:00ish. How is that for the OLD, don't believe everything you read on the internet?

  6. #16
    The fallacy is the ***umption that milesplit and athletic.net are doing it "correctly." This is what we use in CA and the Southern Section. We like it.

    "...nobody has contacted me about my exception..."

    You will be taken A LOT more seriously if you use a real name/identify what school you are from. Maybe then people would know who you are...

  7. #17
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    I am beginning to think that "Coach" is just someone looking to stir up conversation.
    Keith Chann
    Chemistry teacher
    XC Fan
    Rubidoux High School

  8. #18
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    I don't know... Maybe coach has a point...I had a chance to check out these milesplit rankings and we're ranked 18th in the state (all divisions)... Nice!!! I am now going to conveniently forget that I saw Carlsbad (and their 76:30 Mt. SAC time) ranked 34th...
    Last edited by Torres BHDP; 10-27-2012 at 01:20 PM. Reason: smiley!
    Salesian (SS)
    Boyle Heights Distance Project
    "By Endurance We Conquer"

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Chann View Post
    I am beginning to think that "Coach" is just someone looking to stir up conversation.

    I take offense to this reply.
    Simply because you, Keith Chann, are in the "group" and know how the calculations came about, does not mean any individual who questions the method wants to 'stir' things up. There should be nothing to 'stir up'.

    I was under the impression that this was an open website, for all California teams, not a handful.
    As such, the method and definition of how a school is ranked should be transparent to everyone, not just a few.
    Say what you will about Milesplit or Athletic.net, even joke about it. They may or may not be the most appropriate and/or reliable rankings, (as it has been pointed out to me several times in this thread), yet, both sources are very clear on how ranking were developed.
    I appreciate that California schools and/or "we" like how PCT does the rankings, which I am taking away from, but it seems to be a black hole ranking system. I merely asked WHY these rankings are different from Milesplit or Athletic net and all i got was, they are right on, we like them, this is how we do it. As a matter of fact, PCT has not even replied to my original post.
    All I got was a lot of support and emotional replies, but no reply from PCT.

    Great... I will adapt. I can adapt to the california way... now, can someone please explain how the rankings are done.
    Can you please post or create a tab that explains how ranking are determined/calculated, and what is the source of this data.
    Are they determined by a scoring of events/races, are they calculated on athletes time, PR? what is the magic formula, so I too can learn the California way.
    I am interested in DIV III.
    Thank you very much.

  10. #20
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    Chad, my name is clearly on the profile, and by the way, it should not matter what school/team I am from... I have a valid question.
    You can take me seriously, or not, it doesn't matter.
    Lets not forget why we are all here, the athletes. My team has a question as to why on Milesplit they are ranked #10 and in CPT they are not even in the ranking.
    thanks

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