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Thread: Congrats to All Who Ran In Today's State Meet

  1. #1
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    Congrats to All Who Ran In Today's State Meet

    Beautiful day in Fresno. Hats off to the Southern Section, which was more dominant than usual this year. See y'all in same time next year.

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    The young guys ran really fast!

    10 Phillip Rocha FR Arcadia 15:27 4:59 1411 SS D1 #3 All-Time
    6 Austin Tamagno FR Brea Olinda 15:34 5:01 1458 SS D2 #5 All-Time (Tie with Rohatinsky)
    23 Jake Ogden FR Dana Hills 15:38 5:02 1529 SS D2 #8 All-Time

    What are they feeding these kids?
    - Mikel Thomas

  3. #3
    let's get those official ages?!?!

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    St. Francis, Sacramento would be a small Division II team in the SS. Just one example of a team from the North competing against much bigger schools in the same division at the state meet. It would be interesting if all teams competed against like sized schools at the state meet. I don't think the SS would be as dominant. Just check out the Division V results were you have fair competition.

    Yes, this is a discussion from the past but worth repeating. Congrats to all the competitors at today's meet.
    Albert Caruana
    Crystal Springs Uplands School

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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Caruana View Post
    St. Francis, Sacramento would be a small Division II team in the SS. Just one example of a team from the North competing against much bigger schools in the same division at the state meet. It would be interesting if all teams competed against like sized schools at the state meet. I don't think the SS would be as dominant. Just check out the Division V results were you have fair competition.

    Yes, this is a discussion from the past but worth repeating. Congrats to all the competitors at today's meet.
    Good point. It's also worth noting that they have as many schools as the next three sections combined. They still have the best top teams but that dominance would diminish if they were divided up or the next three sections were combined.


    But today was their day as they did put out some really dominant team performances when looking at the winners.

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    Hey, Mikel. Good to see you back on here.

    Albert, if I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times. The section maps should be redrawn with 8 total sections; 4 below the grapevine and 4 above. That would make state playoffs in all sports a lot more managable

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    This should be discussed again. Here's a great article on how a state meet could be running thus making it fair for Northern California teams.

    http://theconningtower.blogspot.com/...-proposal.html

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    I personally think that all sections should have the same numbers for State. I realize that this isn't easy and would mean that some sections would not field division 1 teams, but it clearly isn't fair for teams to have to try to compete with programs that come from much bigger schools.

    A couple thoughts:
    -Does anyone want to do a simulation on how this year would have turned out if everyone would have been in their "correct" division based on SS divisional numbers?
    -How do private schools factor? Although some have fewer kids to choose from, some also are able to form all-star teams of local talent. Should that be considered?
    -Should private schools be placed into divisions based on team history of success and not school population since they don't necessarily have a "normal" population?
    -How many non SS teams would make the state meet for D1? Would D2 become a super division with most of the best teams from around the state?
    -Who would this help and who would it hurt?

    Thank you,

    Doug
    ----------------------------
    Doug Soles
    Head XC & Track Coach
    Great Oak High School

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJS View Post
    This should be discussed again. Here's a great article on how a state meet could be running thus making it fair for Northern California teams.

    http://theconningtower.blogspot.com/...-proposal.html
    That was a very good article. However, school size is not the only issue at play here. If it was, the LA City Section schools would have top finishers in D1 year after year. Competitive tradition counts for a lot. The SS is very competitive, it has many fast runners. The bar is automatically set higher for SS runners and the best among them strive to reach that bar. In the LACS, which also has large schools (poor, inner city), the distance running tradition (and affluence, and training venues) enjoyed by a large percentage of the strong SS schools is not present.

    Putting the spotlight on school size is nice, but even in D4, with a hard cap on enrollment for state meet competition, SS teams still take home the lions share of top 10 places. The SS is a hotbed of distance running where fast performances leads to high expectations which leads hard training, which leads to more fast performances. No amount of school size re-configuration of divisions will change that. It might help, but the SS will still enjoy a competitive edge over the rest of us.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gardner View Post
    let's get those official ages?!?!
    Lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Soles View Post
    I personally think that all sections should have the same numbers for State. I realize that this isn't easy and would mean that some sections would not field division 1 teams, but it clearly isn't fair for teams to have to try to compete with programs that come from much bigger schools.

    A couple thoughts:
    -Does anyone want to do a simulation on how this year would have turned out if everyone would have been in their "correct" division based on SS divisional numbers?
    -How do private schools factor? Although some have fewer kids to choose from, some also are able to form all-star teams of local talent. Should that be considered?
    -Should private schools be placed into divisions based on team history of success and not school population since they don't necessarily have a "normal" population?
    -How many non SS teams would make the state meet for D1? Would D2 become a super division with most of the best teams from around the state?
    -Who would this help and who would it hurt?

    Thank you,

    Doug
    Speaking of competition by school size, the Central Section needs the commissioner to undo the nonsense he has going right now. You remember McFarland? D2 now. On average they had around 800 students all 4 years I was in high school and are now competing against schools 1.5 times their size.

    EDIT: Scratch that. I meant 2.5 times their size.
    Last edited by inyoface; 11-25-2012 at 03:33 PM.
    - Mikel Thomas

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