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Thread: Mistake or new Boys Mt. SAC course record!?

  1. #1
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    Mistake or new Boys Mt. SAC course record!?

    Peter Munoz, race #60 is listed at 14:19 finish time.... Can this be? Anyone see the race?
    ----------------------------------------------------
    "To whom much is given, much is expected"

    Tim Sharpe
    Head Coach XC
    Distance Coach T&F
    Harvard-Westlake

  2. #2
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    Found the answer = Mistake... He was incorrectly listed in race 60 from 59...
    ----------------------------------------------------
    "To whom much is given, much is expected"

    Tim Sharpe
    Head Coach XC
    Distance Coach T&F
    Harvard-Westlake

  3. #3
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    Yes, there are many mistakes. Enough to have them stop handing out awards from Friday's races at the end of D3. I had two top ten finishes not counted alone in Race 4 and Race 15 that have still not been fixed. Too sad the kids may never see the medals they earned. Another coach had a 1-2-3 finish by his team that was not recorded. Seems sad for the kids.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Barnes View Post
    Yes, there are many mistakes. Enough to have them stop handing out awards from Friday's races at the end of D3. I had two top ten finishes not counted alone in Race 4 and Race 15 that have still not been fixed. Too sad the kids may never see the medals they earned. Another coach had a 1-2-3 finish by his team that was not recorded. Seems sad for the kids.
    Mt. Sac has been the class act in XC Invitationals forever. They hired an outside company to do the timing, and obviously it has some flaws. I am in hopes that all of these "mistakes" get fixed after the fact. In many cases it involves much more than a few medals. With our current at large system in CIF, this could affect some teams both up and down. When I spoke to the "problem Solving" guys yesterday about the mess of race #67 they assured me that they would be diligent with reviewing videos and the backup scoring system. Great job of perseverance and patients by those folks.

    Rex Hall
    Dana Hills Girls XC

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Hall View Post
    Mt. Sac has been the class act in XC Invitationals forever. They hired an outside company to do the timing, and obviously it has some flaws. I am in hopes that all of these "mistakes" get fixed after the fact. In many cases it involves much more than a few medals. With our current at large system in CIF, this could affect some teams both up and down. When I spoke to the "problem Solving" guys yesterday about the mess of race #67 they assured me that they would be diligent with reviewing videos and the backup scoring system. Great job of perseverance and patients by those folks.

    Rex Hall
    Dana Hills Girls XC
    I'm sure they are doing their very best, and it has to be very frustrating for them as well. Unfortunately, there is no reason to think the scoring is a "mess" in just race #67 or the D3 sweeps. It is almost certainly every single race. It took a long time to review the two D3 sweeps races.

    For instance, Rex, your #1 finisher in the boys sweeps is still listed online as being beaten by Warren's #2 guy, but if you watch the video it's clear that Ogden was ahead of him; it's not even debatable. Scanning the D1-2 sweeps results right away I'd wonder if Crescenta Valley actually finished in 11th. Did they only run 6 guys? Did Warren only run 5 guys?

  6. #6
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    The first thing I noticed is that times are about 3-4 seconds slower than on the clock... First question is then, is the clock accurate? The next thing I noticed is that there is a white square (like I-PAD length) item that is facing the finish line about 3 feet behind the line which is connected to the timing tent. If you watch the video the time on the clock and when the athletes pass this point behind the finish line match up perfectly? I noticed that athletes who ran past this point have a faster time than those who walk across it... So if the clock is correct then maybe only what I would imagine is a back up system was the only one that was working as I would assume there would have been a scanner located at the finish line? Athletes who are missing may be because they finished to the extreme left of the finish line and thus were not close enough to be scanned?

    If this is true then team times are about 15-20 seconds slower than they should be?

    This is just my opinion so I may be totally off, but I thought something was off when Tal wasn't giving the course record when it is clear that he crossed the line in 14:24 based on the clock at the finish line.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Hall View Post
    Mt. Sac has been the class act in XC Invitationals forever. They hired an outside company to do the timing, and obviously it has some flaws. I am in hopes that all of these "mistakes" get fixed after the fact. In many cases it involves much more than a few medals. With our current at large system in CIF, this could affect some teams both up and down. When I spoke to the "problem Solving" guys yesterday about the mess of race #67 they assured me that they would be diligent with reviewing videos and the backup scoring system. Great job of perseverance and patients by those folks.

    Rex Hall
    Dana Hills Girls XC
    Your boys sweeps race was affected as well. You have finishers listed at "8, 17, 23, 41, 46, 61, 70". Video shows, if I'm correct, it was "7, 17, 24, 40, 46, 61, 70". That takes you down 1 point, so doesn't change your placing.

    However, here's the score I got for the D 1&2 Sweeps. It appears Dos Pueblos actually beat Great Oak, although both will advance to CIF Prelims so it shouldn't matter.

    01. 075 - Arcadia
    02. 107 - Warren
    03. 124 - De La Salle
    04. 134 - Dana Hills
    05. 172 - El Toro
    06. 206 - Dos Pueblos
    07. 207 - Great Oak (credited with a 36th in official results, but was 37th)
    08. 226 - Redondo Union
    09. 245 - La Costa Canyon
    10. 258 - Santa Monica
    11. 258 - Crescenta Valley (official results show 5, 37, 45, 80, 91, 99, video shows 5, 36, 45, 80, 92, 99)
    12. 266 - Poly
    13. 272 - Glendora
    14. 294 - Simi Valley
    15. 325 - Woodbridge
    16. 330 - Fountain Valley (credited with 8 finishers.)

    Mt. Sac has been and still is a class act. This sort of thing could and does happen to anyone. The amount of time it would take to go through and rescore all of the races is just too much for a couple of people to do. If coaches/teams want to make sure their score is right they need to check it on their own with the finish line videos.

  8. #8
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    I agree. But a similar thing happened in Florida at the Walt Disney World Classic and still have not been fixed. I only hope that the CIF officials are paying attention. Even with chip timing there should be a backup system of recording places and times. If this sort of thing happens at CIF then simply saying we will do our best to correct it will not be sufficient when it comes to qualifying for the next level.

  9. #9
    I am going out on a limb and saying the chip timing is off. Looking at my splits from my kids, there is absolutely no way that my 21:35 boy out ran my 15:40 boy over the last 300 meters. I take a split at the announcers booth and my top boy crossed at 14:40 and finishes at 15:43, then my 21:35 guy crosses the announcers booth at 20:37. Not putting much stock in the official times this year.

  10. #10
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    What I do not understand is how some athletes were missed altogether. They went through the entire process with their team, but are totally missing from the final results. Yet, the Flotrack video clearly shows them finishing and with no one else around them. Even the announcer says their name, but they are nowhere in the results. Sad.

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