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Thread: CIF Roster Rules Clarification

  1. #1
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    CIF Roster Rules Clarification

    Hello Coaches,

    I have been searching for clarification of the 12th rule in the playoff bulletin. I have several questions that I haven't been able to get answered and was hoping some of you might be able to help answer my questions.

    Here is the rule as copied from the bulletin:

    "12. TEAM SIZE: Team size is seven (7) runners and coaches should instruct league meet managers to enter the seven (7) names that competed in the league final meet as entrants in the CIF-SS Prelims. Up to two substitutions may be made each day (Prelims/Finals) and reported to Chris Drescher in the Finish area a minimum of 20 minutes prior to your race time. No changes will be accepted after that deadline. Contestants with bibs and athletes tickets will enter through the Athletes Gate."

    "22. ELIGIBILITY LIST: Attention Athletic Directors/Coaches: It is very important that you enter your entire Boys and Girls Varsity Cross Country roster into CIFSSHome (www.cifsshome.org) no later than Saturday, November 7, 2015 as this will serve as your eligibility list.
    Log in @ www.cifsshome.org (If you do not have a log in & password as a coach, check with your Athletic Director). Once you are logged in:
    -On the left panel, click on Sport/Coaches/Roster
    -Select “Boys/Girls Cross Country” by clicking “View” under Roster for that sport on the right
    -Download the sample file or arrange your own file exactly as the information appears on the gray bar. You can only upload an excel file (xls) that is the EXACT SAME format as we are requiring. Columns for information not required for your sport may be left blank, but the HEADER INFORMATION MUST REMAIN EXACTLY AS THE SAMPLE. The Following categories are required for Boys/Girls Cross Country (First Name, Last Name, Birth date, Year, & Eligibility).
    - Next to Roster Upload, click Browse, find your file and upload
    Check out the Help video under the Help button on the bottom left, Making Sure You’re Playoff Ready"

    My Questions:

    1. Why does rule 12 exist? What is its purpose? When was it created?
    2. If we are limiting our roster to 9 for CIF SS, Why then does CIF then instruct for our "entire" roster to be uploaded to the CIF database?
    3. Why do we limit our XC roster in CIF to only 9 athletes? Why do we not have the ability to run any athlete from our eligible roster pool in either meet?
    4. Are there any other sports in CIF that have these types of roster limitations put on them?
    5. Why has the rule been applied some years and not others?
    6. Is it saying that we have to run the same 7 at CIF Prelims (with up to 2 substitutions), that we ran at league finals, or can we run different kids at league finals than at CIF Prelims? Is it a suggestion to the leagues or a mandate of who being run also must run at CIF?
    7. Does our roster open up again at State for us to put in any athlete we like at that point or do we have to use the same athletes from CIF Finals?

    I think it is important for all coaches to thoroughly understand not only the process, but why that process exists. Any help on any of those questions is much appreciated. If you also have questions, please list them so we can all be sure what the process is going into CIF.

    Thank you,

    Doug
    ----------------------------
    Doug Soles
    Head XC & Track Coach
    Great Oak High School

  2. #2
    Regarding using one chip on each shoe and declaring finishing order based upon whoever's chip crosses first: have any of you seen someone slide feet first across the line? It would be strange to see someone get second whose chest crossed before another runners chest, but their lead foot was behind the lead foot of the person in second. Maybe we should be cross training with the baseball team.
    Last edited by Joe Wiley; 11-07-2015 at 04:33 PM. Reason: spelling

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Wiley View Post
    Regarding using one chip on each shoe and declaring finishing order based upon whoever's chip crosses first: have any of you seen someone slide feet first across the line? It would be strange to see someone get second whose chest crossed before another runners chest, but their lead foot was behind the lead foot of the person in second. Maybe we should be cross training with the baseball team.
    as far as i know, they ultimately go to the photos to determine the finish (in the case of a tie or near-tie), not the chip. i'd be curious, though, about how often they do this in an x-c race where close races may abound throughout the field; but, at least for the win, i've been in a race where someone out-chipped me, but i out-leaned them and was awarded the victory...

  4. #4
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    NFHS Rule 9-3-3 stipulates that two chips must be worn, one on each shoe, and when chips are used they are the official order of finish. Film/video is used only to determine foot (chip) placement if a question/problem arises. USAT&F rules are different which is why Cush refers to out leaning the chips. Can't happen according to NFHS rules.

  5. #5
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    Hal (or anyone else from the Advisory Committee), can you respond to Doug's question about why only 2 substitutions are allowed (and not all 7)? Shouldn't each team have a post-season roster (posted on the cifss site) and then choose which 7 race on that race day? Is there any other sport that limits the roster size moving towards the post-season (many other sports actually increase their roster for the playoffs and athletes are "called up" to either gain experience or in case of illness/injury). Thank you for any insight that anyone can provide.

    Nate Bershtel
    LB Poly Girls XC/Track

  6. #6
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    Ø[QUOTE=CoachN8;2599]Hal (or anyone else from the Advisory Committee), can you respond to Doug's question about why only 2 substitutions are allowed (and not all 7)? Shouldn't each team have a post-season roster (posted on the cifss site) and then choose which 7 race on that race day? Is there any other sport that limits the roster size moving towards the post-season (many other sports actually increase their roster for the playoffs and athletes are "called up" to either gain experience or in case of illness/injury). Thank you for any insight that anyone can provide.

    Nate Bershtel
    LB Poly Girls XC/Track[

    Cross Country Team and Relay Team Rosters are subject to the same limitations in a two session meet. The SS Track Prelims/Finals are one meet and the SS Cross Country Prelims/Finals are one meet. In Track schools are allowed up to declare up to six runners and run any combination of four of the six each of the two weeks. The same holds true for Cross Country, you are allowed to declare any seven you wish from your League Final and then can substitute two of the seven each week.

  7. #7
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    The same holds true for Cross Country, you are allowed to declare any seven you wish from your League Final and then can substitute two of the seven each week

    Hal, I understand what you are saying but it still does not explain why 2 substitutes? Why not 3? Why not all 7? What is the rationale behind the limit of 2?

    Thank you!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachN8 View Post
    The same holds true for Cross Country, you are allowed to declare any seven you wish from your League Final and then can substitute two of the seven each week

    Hal, I understand what you are saying but it still does not explain why 2 substitutes? Why not 3? Why not all 7? What is the rationale behind the limit of 2?

    Thank you!
    That's the number that was agreed upon by the Advisory Committee.

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=Hal Harkness;2600]Ø
    Quote Originally Posted by CoachN8 View Post
    Hal (or anyone else from the Advisory Committee), can you respond to Doug's question about why only 2 substitutions are allowed (and not all 7)? Shouldn't each team have a post-season roster (posted on the cifss site) and then choose which 7 race on that race day? Is there any other sport that limits the roster size moving towards the post-season (many other sports actually increase their roster for the playoffs and athletes are "called up" to either gain experience or in case of illness/injury). Thank you for any insight that anyone can provide.

    Nate Bershtel
    LB Poly Girls XC/Track[

    Cross Country Team and Relay Team Rosters are subject to the same limitations in a two session meet. The SS Track Prelims/Finals are one meet and the SS Cross Country Prelims/Finals are one meet. In Track schools are allowed up to declare up to six runners and run any combination of four of the six each of the two weeks. The same holds true for Cross Country, you are allowed to declare any seven you wish from your League Final and then can substitute two of the seven each week.
    Hi Hal,

    So to be clear, is this what it looks like?

    -League Finals - Run anyone we want from our roster, Send CIF the roster that will be competing at CIF, 7 athletes, 2 subs (even if the athletes do not compete at league finals they are still eligible for CIF).

    -CIF Prelims - Any of the 9 CIF Eligible Kids

    -CIF Finals - Any of the 9 CIF Eligible Kids

    -State - Anyone from our roster


    Is this correct? I'm fielding emails from a lot of different coaches that are confused as well and would appreciate clarification.

    Thank you,

    Doug
    ----------------------------
    Doug Soles
    Head XC & Track Coach
    Great Oak High School

  10. #10
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    Doug,

    You may run any seven you wish in the SS Prelims, doesn't matter if they participated in the League Finals. Give whatever seven names you wish to declare for the Prelims to your League Mgr. and make sure he enters those seven. You may substitute two for the seven entered at the Prelim Meet if you wish. Unless the your correct seven get entered into EPI Sports by your League Mgr., you will only be able to change two of the names that were submitted.

    The seven that started the Prelim Meet will be forwarded to the Finals, you may substitute two of the seven at the Finals.

    Unless you have Chris Drescher enter the correct seven you wish to run at the State Meet, they will not appear in the program. Yes can still make any other necessary changes at Woodward Park on Friday afternoon.

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